In Season 2, Episode 15 of the Guns for Hire podcast, host Alia Brahimi is joined by Dimko Zhluktenko, a Ukrainian drone pilot and analyst within the Unmanned Systems Forces of the Ukrainian military. They discuss the realities of drone warfare in Ukraine, as well as the ways in which mercenary forces change the nature and tempo of battle. Dimko describes how he and his comrades are combatting Shahed drones, the psychological mechanisms necessary to keep fighting an army which uses waves of expendable manpower, and the need for NATO to start thinking of drones as bullets. Dimko also talks about how procurement and innovation cycles on both sides of the war are now measured in weeks, and how the geeks of war have turned the tide in Ukraine.
“Whether it’s a private security company like Vectus, or whether it’s the UN gang suppression force, they need to be able to hand over to someone. So, the institution-building requirements becomes inescapable.”
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About the podcast
Guns for Hire podcast is a production of the Atlantic Council’s North Africa Initiative. Taking Libya as its starting point, it examines the causes and implications of the increasing use of mercenaries in armed conflicts.
The podcast features guests from many walks of life, from ethicists and historians to former mercenary fighters. It seeks to understand what the normalization of contract warfare reveals about the world we currently inhabit, the future of the international system, and what war may look like in the coming decades.
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Through our Rafik Hariri Center for the Middle East, the Atlantic Council works with allies and partners in Europe and the wider Middle East to protect US interests, build peace and security, and unlock the human potential of the region.
Image: An employee checks P1-Sun FPV interceptor drone before flying it at a training ground during an examination for military drone operators of the SkyFall fly academy, amid Russia’s attack on Ukraine, in an undisclosed location, Ukraine March 6, 2026. REUTERS/Valentyn Ogirenko
